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Cael Quinan
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re: Raid Loot System: EP/GP

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What is EP/GP?

EP/GP is a relational DKP system that balances the effort of an individual in relation to the gear they have been awarded. Effort Points (EP) quantify the effort each member put towards the (common) guild goals and Gear Points (GP) quantify what each member got back in return. Loot priority -or Priority (PR)- is computed as the quotient of the two; A member's PR is equal to EP divided by GP. Therefore, the more effort you've put into the guild's goals in relation to the rewards (gear) you've received, the higher your PR, or priority, in the loot system.

EP can be awarded through a multitude of activities:
    * Being on time for raids
    * Killing bosses
    * Wiping on new boss tries
    * Being present until the end of raid
    * Being extraordinarily helpful to the guild (making pots for a specific fight or donating materiel)
    * Doing some grunt work no one wants to tackle, like key runs or farming

GP points are accrued though accepting some form of reward or benefit:
    * Receiving loot in a raid
    * Receiving items from the guild bank for high level enchants or tradeskilling
    * Getting gold from bank for repairs/mats

EP/GP is an improvement over traditional DKP systems, which are usually Zero-Sum based (ZDKP) and require constant taxes and manipulations to attempt to keep the system fair. Unfortunately, these systems rarely accomplish what they attempt to do and ultimately issues -like point hoarding and inequities based on attendance and seniority (long-term members generally fare better in ZDKP than new recruits)- result in the system becoming very unfair over time.

EP/GP resolves a number of these issues automatically. To discourage point hoarding, we will have a 10% decay of points over time. The longer you hold onto your points, the less value they will retain. We feel that an average player will encounter at least a single drop within 10 raids that they want to bid on. However, to further offset the possibility they might not, our EP/GP is based upon players -not characters- so all of your guilded characters will share the same Effort and Gear points. Not only will this serve to allow better geared members to use points on their alts instead of losing points to decay, but it also serves to eliminate potential issues involving gear disputes between mains and alts.

The system also scales well with the variations in playstyle and amount of time each member has available to raid. At it's core, the system simply rewards any effort with gear. Now, being in raids will of course raise your PR at the greatest rate, but we're also rewarding out-of-raid (OOR) activities that benefit the guild as well, such of key runs, tradeskill farming, and a myriad of other activities. While raiding will always recieve the highest rewards, certain OOR acts are as essential to the progression of the guild and it's members and will thus have their own Effort Point rewards.

In raids, you will be awarded a base amount for each boss killed. The sum of these boss amounts should equal -for a full clear of the raid instance- the amount needed to received PR for the average value of an item in the raid instance. Or -more simply put- we've balanced the system so that one full raid clear equals one loot reward, in terms of points. Other Effort points may be awarded but this is the base system we will use.

Bidding is simple. When an item drops that you are interested in, a window will popup on your screen, much like the loot window you see in 5-man instances. In this window, you can choose to bid in a variety of ways: Main, Minor Upgrade, Offspec, Greed, or Pass. The RL will then consult their EP/GP tool and the person who "bids" and has the highest PR is awarded the item. The value of that item (a formula that accounts for item level, slot and rarity) is then added to their Gear Points, which lowers the ratio of their PR accordingly. There is a 500 EP minimum to outbid on any items. What this means is that you must have raided at least once or twice to have the ability to outbid another raiding member. This is not unreasonable, as it is simply guarantees that people who are receiving the rewards of raiding are those that have contributed a bare minimum to our raid progression.

All EP/GP Values will be exported to this website by the beginning of the next day following the raid. However, EP and GP will be awarded live in the raid, so PR and EP/GP totals may differ during the raid from what is posted.

So, how much EP will I be earning?
Each raid instance will have it's own points value. Our system is based upon the equation that one full instance clear will earn you EP equal to the average GP value of items in that instance.

In a raid, how do I bid on loot? And how much will it cost me?
We use an addon which all raider must install which handles looting. When an item drops, you will see a popup much like the standard loot roll window. This popup has a number of options: Main, Minor Upgrade, OffSpec, Greed and Pass. Each defines a level of desire for an item. Main would be a definite upgrade for your main spec. Minor Upgrade would be an item that is an upgrade, but only to a limited degree. Offspec would be an upgrade for your Offspec and Greed would be an item that is not an upgrade, but that you still have desire for. You would chose your level of bid (or desire for an item) by clicking the cooresponding button. The Loot Master then sees all these bids and allocates loot.

Each level of bid supercedes the subordinate levels of bids, but incurs a greater cost. The following is a list of the levels of bid, their relative cost in terms of an item and which bids they trump:

    Main - Award determined by PR. Item price is 100%. This selection trumps all other selections.
    Minor Upgrade - Award determined by PR. Item price is 50%. This selection trumps OffSpec and Greed.
    OffSpec - Award determined by PR. Item price is 25%. This selection trumps Greed.
    Greed - Award determined by PR. Item price is 10%.
    Pass - self-explanatory


The value of an item can be seen in its tool tip, provided you have the addon installed properly. The percentage you will page is based upon that number.

How is GP determined?
The following equation is how the GP value of an item is derived and can be found on the EPGP Mod Thread:

GP = 0.483 x 2 ilvl/26 + (rarity) x slot mod

Of course, that means next to nothing, but you can follow the linked thread for a full explanation of how it's calculated. If you have any questions about how GP is derived, you are encouraged to visit the above linked website and grab a calculator; it seems pretty straightforward, but there's a lot of variables, so a thorough read is recommended to full understand it.

Some items have more than one value; what does that mean?
One confusing aspect of the system that should be clarified is that weapons, especially one-handed weapons, have two values when you view them. This includes two-handed weapons that CAN be one-handed, like the [Citadel Enforcer's Claymore] . One (the higher) is considered the main-hand value, since main-handing any weapon is considered of more value than off-handing a weapon (which is the lower value). Main-handed weapons will use the higher value of the two. Off-handed weapons will use the lower value. Keep in mind that off-spec and minor upgrade discounts will still apply.

I'm exceptionally well-geared; won't this system work against me?
So, what do you get the raider who -literally- has everything? PtV obviously wants these people to be in raids as they'll bring a substantially higher amount of DPS/healing/defense/health/etc than the standard raider (as well as experience). And, we definitely want them to feel that the raid has value to them and that they are receiving comparable rewards for their effort and time.

However -to maintain the integrity of the system and deter point hoarding- the decay of EP will hit them hardest since they simply won't be able to spend their points fast enough, as they'll need (and therefore bid on) much less. We are aware of this and there are a couple of ways to alleviate these effects.

One way is alts. Since points are shared between characters, unspent points the main accumulates equates to higher priority on their alts. Having an alt is the best, most complete solution.

Another alternative is OOR rewards. Since members can spend GP on guild bank items -like pots/elixirs/shards/cloths/leathers- they can bleed excess points in this fashion too. The only drawback to this is having an ample supply of whatever they want/need.

In closing, we feel this system best represents our guiding philosophy about loot allocation: effort is rewarded, both in raids and outside. Seniority and dedication bring their own rewards but are not a bar to the newly recruited. We want everyone to attend raids and feel that they have received rewards commensurate to their efforts and we feel this system will guarantee that.


Last edited by Cael Quinan on 2008/11/19 13:07; edited 3 times in total
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