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Cael Quinan
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re: Sartharion, Delayed

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I have been looking over the loot records for Obsidian Sanctum over the last month and on average only one drop in the last month has been won for Main Spec. Essentially, that means we have a main spec loot award in Obsidian Sanctum of around 12.5%

Although Sartharion is not hard, the trash and mini-boss clears are time consuming. Essentially, this is an hour long 4 badge run with bags. At this point, I do not see Sartharion (abiding by our current 0 add strategy) as a viable expenditure of our raid time, especially with our focus on completing Naxx, moving to Malygos and finally entering Ulduar. I see less value and reward in us doing Sartharion than spending an extra hour in Naxx or adding Emalon to our rotation.

I would like some input on this, but at present, we will no longer be doing Sartharion, except on our Raid B schedule.


Last edited by Cael Quinan on 2009/04/16 12:19; edited 1 time in total


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re: Sartharion, Delayed

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I have heard some rumors that state that the loot tables were balanced for some bosses, but no specifics on which bosses... or what balancing means for that matter.... but if that is true, I think it might be a better idea to look at what can potentially drop, and decide whether it's a good/bad idea to do OS.

Also, with the DPS we have, shouldn't we be able to do at least one drake? We might need an extra tank to do the drake... IE 3 tank run (adds/sarth/drake), but I definitely think it's worth a shot in the near future... assuming the loot possibilities are worthwhile for our members.

Also, if this is the position the leadership takes, should we not also be looking into Vault? How often do we gear raiders with main spec raid gear? If it's equally low, are we going to position all of our attention on Naxx, and not do the smaller raids?

Honestly, I think that Sarth is a good place to work on our speed... start using them as speed runs on off nights... I was doing some reading on raid strategies (not dungeon specific), and a lot of them say that the number one raid killer is speed, or lack thereof. I must say I see this as true too. I was in a 25 last week that downed two bosses in over two hours. that raid should have been able to clear two quarters in that time if you analyze the toons involved. I see OS as a great place to do this for two reasons.

1) There's a considerable amount of mobs in a small space. We'll be able to chain pull dragonkin->giants->drake, 30 second rest, and repeat. There's no loot to be concerned with for the drakes.
2) The mobs are not considerably hard, and can be killed very quickly, and training in this fashion will not only allow us to hone our speed, but allow us to be a more cohesive unit.
We SHOULD be able to clear OS in well under an hour. I'm thinking more along the lines of half that. Then everyone runs out and heads to Naxx. Or even do this on off nights as a training game.

Alternatively, should this position become concrete, are you opening for raiders to start pugging this 10 man content?


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Cael Quinan
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Currently, OS is taking over 45 minutes for us to clear and so far is only yielding -on average- usable loot around 1/8th of the times we go in there. It also yields 4 Emblems of Heroism. At this point, for our main raiders, E0H's are becoming less and less valuable. A better time investment for Emblems would be a Heroic. While there are potentially upgrades in this zone, historically they are not dropping and in terms of deciding on time investments, I'd rather us spend our time in Naxx and beyond. By comparison, we could clear a quarter of Naxx in the same time (or less hopefully) for a potential 6 upgrades and 3-4 Emblems of Heroism, making it a better investment of our time.

While we could approach Obsidian Sanctum as a training exercise, which would be admittedly valuable, a better investment would be getting better gear, which -as I've said- we're just not seeing in Sartharion. I would love to work up to a 3 drake run, but I'd love for us to see and defeat Kel'Thazad more. It's about prioritizing our time and since we adamantly limited to two night progression runs, I've made the decision to focus our time on the raids that benefit us most.

At present, we'll continue doing Archavon when available. Compared to Sartharion, he's only 15-20 minutes for the same level of loot and statistically dropped more won loot in the last month than his black dragonflight peer. That being said, we will also be phasing him out, ideally in favor of Emalon in two weeks. Emalon drops tier 8, so he'll be an excellent primer for Ulduar, plus over-gear us for the remainder of Naxx.

In the final analysis, we rarely have time to devote serious attempts at not only Plague and Arachnid, but also Military and Construct. Would we rather persist with Sartharion on our progression nights in lieu of that final quarter? Since that's been the situation since we started, that's the decision before me. I chose Naxx and finishing it.

As for Sartharion, I'd be firmly behind an off-night run or pugging it if necessary. In terms of challenges and accomplishment, I want us to reach a point where we are doing a 20 minute clear of him or a 3-drake clear of him, but my focus as raid leader is progression and I simply don't see him helping us as much as he did in the past in that respect.

We will keep him on the Sunday rotation though, as stated.


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